$5 million dollar questions????

A discussion restricted to the topic of hang gliding.
TBrown
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$5 million dollar questions????

Post by TBrown »

Why are we losing incomparable and irreplaceable mountain sites like Telluride and Jackson? Where are our USHPA/RRRG dues going? How does Australia do it?
It appears that the Aussie national club dues are about double the USHPA/RRRG fees. Yet they receive insurance coverage more than SEVEN times what we get here in the Untied States. Please check my math, spelling is correct. I fear it is only a short time before we lose our fantastic mountain launch site which happens to have a ski resort under it.
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CloudHopper
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Re: $5 million dollar questions????

Post by CloudHopper »

I did not know we had lost Telluride. That's sad news for sure. Is there any way we can get all remaining hg launches and LZs classified as "infrastructure", with a small portion of next year's $6 trillion national budget allocated to preserving and protecting these sites?
Seamusless
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Re: $5 million dollar questions????

Post by Seamusless »

CloudHopper wrote: Fri, May 28 2021, 08:18:18 pm I did not know we had lost Telluride. That's sad news for sure. Is there any way we can get all remaining hg launches and LZs classified as "infrastructure", with a small portion of next year's $6 trillion national budget allocated to preserving and protecting these sites?
You may jest slightly, but the Great American Outdoors Act passed and signed in the last administration now has a recurring billion+ dollar budget for infrastructure improvements and land acquisitions related to Forest Service and National Park lands. I hope the FFF is looking into how to access some of that grant money to expand access through Forest Service acquisitions and improvements.
TBrown
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Re: $5 million dollar questions????

Post by TBrown »

the Great American Outdoors Act passed and signed in the last administration now has a recurring billion+ dollar budget for infrastructure improvements and land acquisitions related to Forest Service and National Park lands.
Careful what we wish for. When a national monument 'improves' to a national park, hang gliding is instantly banned. The existing hang gliding sites within national parks are the result of the local free-flight communities spending many hours to create a unique exception from a federal law. Even then concessions, limited hours or shortened season, result.
Seamusless
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Re: $5 million dollar questions????

Post by Seamusless »

Right, National Parks are a tricky issue for sure. But the GAOA funds aren't limited to just National Parks. They can be used for National Forest and BLM land and infrastructure improvements as well. GAOA could even conceivably be used to improve launch or landing access in the parks that already permit hang gliding as well. It would be nice if some clubs identified these locales for FFF to pursue in terms of expansion.
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CloudHopper
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Re: $5 million dollar questions????

Post by CloudHopper »

If we could get the government to give us $1 trillion in $100 bills, and if we stacked all 10 billion of those papers up the usual way, we'd then have a launch point with an altitude of 685 miles above the ground. What price altitude?
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Col.r
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Re: $5 million dollar questions????

Post by Col.r »

Good luck with getting anything for your association, here in Australia, we have caught your litigation disease which hasn't finished with our flying/societal dysfunctions.
Why our sports activities and so much more worldwide are in peril-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6niWzomA_So&t=2s
We are all in the gutter,but some of us are looking at the stars. MT.

Youtube videos- Col Rushton
TBrown
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Re: $5 million dollar questions????

Post by TBrown »

I believe you're right Col. Thirty to forty years ago there were a dozen or more hang gliders in our 'neighborhood' and 1, maybe 2 Learjets at the nearby airstrip. Now we have one or two hangies flying the mountain and a dozen Gulfstreams on the tarmac on any summer weekend. Alas no middle class, richer rich . Hope that remaining Kochh bro keeps his head in the WSJ as he gets helicoptered past our mountain site on the way to his ranch/town just over the pass. Imagine his disdain were he to see 'regular people' enjoying his sky.
Cloud all we need is a nice long ridge, elevation 17,999'. Use the rest to fund the aRRRRRRGh!
Sea, during my very, very short BLM career, the local land manager sent a ranger to remove glider tiedowns and windsocks from one of our sites upon learning of their existence. During the same period, motocrossers and mtn bikers got new parking lots, outhouses, signage etc.. Reaching out to the feds seamsuseless, unless you've got powerful local commercial lobby group. Sew, I don't dare mention this outside of the free flight culture:
Fortieth Anniversary of the Crested Butte Soaring Society .
Keeping it under 'the radar'.
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Mgforbes
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Re: $5 million dollar questions????

Post by Mgforbes »

TBrown wrote: Thu, May 27 2021, 10:26:17 pm Why are we losing incomparable and irreplaceable mountain sites like Telluride and Jackson? Where are our USHPA/RRRG dues going? How does Australia do it?
It appears that the Aussie national club dues are about double the USHPA/RRRG fees. Yet they receive insurance coverage more than SEVEN times what we get here in the Untied States. Please check my math, spelling is correct. I fear it is only a short time before we lose our fantastic mountain launch site which happens to have a ski resort under it.
The root of the problem is the insurance company AIG, which provides insurance for many of the ski resorts in the US. They made an
arbitrary decision to require a $5 million limit policy for all "high risk" activities at ski areas they insure. They won't budge on that,
and we've been working on it since they announced this decision. It's a consequence of the hardening insurance market and lower
insurance company profits. Those are driven by lower long-term interest rates and losses in the property/casualty lines due to
flooding, hurricanes and wildfires. Insurers are tightening standards, reducing coverage and demanding higher limits for activities
like hang gliding at these ski areas.

Recreation RRG is licensed to offer $1 million/occurrence, $2 million annual aggregate coverage as a baseline. For specific
locations we've been able to negotiate reinsurance at 2/2 and 2/3 limits for a substantial extra premium, which flows straight
to the reinsurers at 100%. We're working on a solution for the $5 million demanded by AIG for access to ski areas. This was just
sprung on us a few months ago and it takes some time to work out the details. Recreation RRG doesn't have enough capital to
be able to just raise the limits arbitrarily. If we had ten million in assets, then we could just do it....but we don't.

I think we're going to be able to announce a solution fairly soon. It's likely to be expensive. I've talked with the folks at
Telluride about this in the past week and we brainstormed some ideas for how to make it work.

Mark G. Forbes
Recreation RRG CFO
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Col.r
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Re: $5 million dollar questions????

Post by Col.r »

"It's going to be expensive" Not for your 1%

People don't have a strong intuitive sense of how much bigger 1 billion is than 1 million. 1 million seconds is about 11 days. 1 billion seconds is about 31.5 years.

Insurance premiums are sky-rocketing worldwide, good luck with your fix...
We are all in the gutter,but some of us are looking at the stars. MT.

Youtube videos- Col Rushton
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