Lucky to be alive…

A discussion restricted to the topic of hang gliding.
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Martin
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Post by Martin »

[/quote]
I don't even know why it should be called the 'Aussie method'. It should be 'THE METHOD', why ever do it any other way?[
/quote]

There are plenty of reasons, some good, some bad (reasons). Often, there is much more going on that may require a pilot remaining un-clipped.

In our towing operation, loading onto the tow rig can be a very dynamic situation, being clipped in is hazardous. Attempting to load a glider into the system with a harness already clipped in compromises the loading process and adds complications to a already challenging situation.

If your in a launch lineup, again, in a very dynamic launch situation (dust devils and such) being clipped in well back in the line could again compromise your safety (and the safety of others around you) as often the pilot may need to leave the control bar to secure the wing. (Tho… in your typical launch lineup having the harness clipped in is probably your best option).

What the problem is, is complacency. A pilot that does not take charge and manage the responsibility of his/her aircraft is likely to make these sorts of mistakes. Weak or poor procedures leave a pilot wide open to mistakes. A lack of focus on the task make all of us vulnerable to distraction. Distraction kills.

As to "watching out for your fellow pilot". Its nice, admirable and ethically the right thing to do but ultimately it's the pilot that has to take responsibility for all aspects of operating their aircraft. When I head out for a day of flying I would never rely on someone else for my safety.


Martin
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Mario
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Post by Mario »

I’m not saying this is why he didn’t see that he hooked in incorrectly, but this also reminds me of why I am often tempted to cut off my chin guard on one of my helmets. I realize there are good reasons for having it in an accident, but I have often hated how it blocks some of my view.
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Martin
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Post by Martin »

Mario wrote:I’m not saying this is why he didn’t see that he hooked in incorrectly, but this also reminds me of why I am often tempted to cut off my chin guard on one of my helmets. I realize there are good reasons for having it in an accident, but I have often hated how it blocks some of my view.
Mario, well not on the topic, you make an interesting point about the viability, tho I fly with a full face on the hang (flying prone), I could never get comfortable with a full face for paragliding, always found the there was a lack or forward/glide slope vision (with the glide slope on the PG usually being somewhere between your knees ;-) )

Martin
Seamusless
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Post by Seamusless »

Given the pilot’s predicament here once he disconnected, would he have been able to deploy his reserve?
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Tormod
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Post by Tormod »

In our towing operation, loading onto the tow rig can be a very dynamic situation, being clipped in is hazardous. Attempting to load a glider into the system with a harness already clipped in compromises the loading process and adds complications to a already challenging situation.
Then load the glider, clip in the harness and THEN climb into it. When using a cart or whenever the start position is prone in the harness the forget to hook in-problem is gone anyway.
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Martin
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Post by Martin »

Tormod wrote:
In our towing operation, loading onto the tow rig can be a very dynamic situation, being clipped in is hazardous. Attempting to load a glider into the system with a harness already clipped in compromises the loading process and adds complications to a already challenging situation.
Then load the glider, clip in the harness and THEN climb into it. When using a cart or whenever the start position is prone in the harness the forget to hook in-problem is gone anyway.
Ha… if you understood the "big picture" you would realize just how dumb that is (no offence intended… really… no offence intended). When your towing/loading a rigid wing with dust devils on the prowl, the more time you spend mucking about on the rig the more likely you get to be the "steak" for and band of prowling "pit-bulls" :lol: We have a very tight check list, that works very well. The focus of our process is to get onto the rig, locked down and stable, minimize the "risk" exposure yet complete a thorough safety check list. Is it perfect? Nope, but its layered with overlapping checks that help mitigate potential weaknesses. Has a pilot ever "not clipped in" on our system? Yes!… distracted and not committed to the process its possible… they looked pretty foolish doing so but there was no risk to pilot, the check list protected the pilot.

Which is my point… its less about the process and more about the pilot. If a pilot lets a side conversation distract them from a critical procedure, lets something like turning on or futzing with a action camera (or any other toys), then the pilot needs assess his/her commitment to the process. We will never make the process idiot proof. I think what is helpful is the concept that every process requires a certain amount of mental focus and commitment (and yes, some need to assess the process).

BTW… with your process… the pilot can forget the leg loops (which is why, even with "your" process, you still require that the pilot is paying attention and committed to the operation of the aircraft and ready to fly).

Martin
Richard
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Post by Richard »

Martin wrote:
I don't even know why it should be called the 'Aussie method'. It should be 'THE METHOD', why ever do it any other way?
There are plenty of reasons, some good, some bad (reasons). Often, there is much more going on that may require a pilot remaining un-clipped.

In our towing operation, loading onto the tow rig can be a very dynamic situation, being clipped in is hazardous. Attempting to load a glider into the system with a harness already clipped in compromises the loading process and adds complications to a already challenging situation.

If your in a launch lineup, again, in a very dynamic launch situation (dust devils and such) being clipped in well back in the line could again compromise your safety (and the safety of others around you) as often the pilot may need to leave the control bar to secure the wing. (Tho… in your typical launch lineup having the harness clipped in is probably your best option).

What the problem is, is complacency. A pilot that does not take charge and manage the responsibility of his/her aircraft is likely to make these sorts of mistakes. Weak or poor procedures leave a pilot wide open to mistakes. A lack of focus on the task make all of us vulnerable to distraction. Distraction kills.

As to "watching out for your fellow pilot". Its nice, admirable and ethically the right thing to do but ultimately it's the pilot that has to take responsibility for all aspects of operating their aircraft. When I head out for a day of flying I would never rely on someone else for my safety.


Martin
So, what you are saying is that clipping in the harness to the glider before getting into it is indeed The Method except under very exceptional circumstances. It would be better to make this explicit and cultural everywhere to reduce the number of non-hooked-in accidents. Not doing so is only for very specific reasons and could be looked upon as unusual and in need of further specialised procedure.
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Blindrodie
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Interesting...

Post by Blindrodie »

Jim

Tow me up. I'll find my way down
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BilleFly
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Post by BilleFly »

Seamusless wrote:Given the pilot’s predicament here once he disconnected, would he have been able to deploy his reserve?
YES -- the reserve would have a Good chance to open , because
of your forward speed. The base-tube is forward of the CG ;
so hanging on to it , will make the glider fly fast.
BUT
do not try until after ya climb up with the base-tube under
your armpits , OR place both hands in the center of the base-tube; if
your hanging below with both hands a fare distance apart , then
the moment you let go with one hand, the glider will go into
a bad turn , and ya might not be able to hold on with one hand.

Bille
GOOD RUSH !!!
Seamusless
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Post by Seamusless »

BilleFly wrote:
Seamusless wrote:Given the pilot’s predicament here once he disconnected, would he have been able to deploy his reserve?
if
your hanging below with both hands a fare distance apart , then
the moment you let go with one hand, the glider will go into
a bad turn , and ya might not be able to hold on with one hand.

Bille
I think that is the exact situation here. Releasing with one hand would have heavily weighted the other side of the bar initiating a hard turn. Seems quite unlikely he could have reached his reserve in that timeframe without fully disconnecting and going into freefall. In free fall I don’t think there is enough time to deploy here.