Fly Paragliders with Dustin in Brazil

A discussion restricted to the topic of hang gliding.
User avatar
The Oz Report
Posts: 145052
Joined: Thu, Feb 27 2003, 06:38:33 pm

Fly Paragliders with Dustin in Brazil

Post by The Oz Report »

<div id="1562162376"><i>Sort like the old days but with less hassle</i><br><p class="BN"><a target="_parent" href="http://www.flywithdustin.com/">http://w ... </a></p><p class="BN"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.flywithdustin.com/"><img border="0" src="../pub/images/dustinpg.JPG" width="491" height="332" style="width:auto;height:auto;max-width:100%"></a></p><p class="BN">Fly with Dustin is back! And for 2019/2020 we are exclusively PARAGLIDING!! Yes, PG! I took a break from clinics and focused myself the last couple of years on the challenges and opportunities that PG offers, not least of which is the ultimate freedom of having your wings in a backpack. This defines the entire process, from travel, to setup and breakdown, to retrieval, and also opens up incredibly deep lines in new areas. And enjoying the process is one of driving reasons for flying after all. I hope to see many of my hang gliding friends who also fly pg joining me this season to learn how to convert all those years of experience to cross country enjoyment on their new wings.</p><p class="BN">Why Fly with Dustin? From the start, I've made a point to set these courses apart from the typical 'tour'. This is not a ..point at the lz and kick you off, good luck... tour. The intent, and the focus at all times, has been developing safe, knowledgeable cross country pilots that have foundational XC skills and knowledge to apply wherever they fly. It is nice to get lucky here and there, but what's nicer is making that luck happen on every flight. Consistently finding climbs, consistently following good glide lines, consistently being aware of the other pilots around you, and consistently thinking ahead will make you a very good XC pilot. Talking or reading about these skills is one thing, but actually practicing them daily for a week or more as a team will put the skills in your hands.</p><p class="BN">Join me, Dustin Martin, a veteran of South American free flight guiding, for highly focused, small-group PARAGLIDING cross country courses. Maximum four pilots per course, exactly as I run my hang gliding tours. My focus is on developing and improving XC skills at safe, reliable, predictable sites, with consistent cross country conditions.</p><p class="BN">I'm pleased to be starting up again, with a 2019 season opener in Brazil. Dates available as soon as next month (Please contact me for dates and availability on these fall tours). FYI, US citizens will no longer need to go through the complicated visa process to visit Brazil. No visa, no cost, no hassle!</p></div>
Jay Z
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue, Aug 02 2016, 03:54:17 pm

Post by Jay Z »

"Exclusively paragliding?" Sounds like the USHPA.

Even Dustin sells out hang gliding. What a load of crap.
User avatar
Ben Reese
Posts: 1333
Joined: Wed, Sep 25 2013, 12:16:20 pm

Post by Ben Reese »

A classic example of how to exclusively grow paragliding..

More pilots
More girls
Less hassle

For business and touring it’s an attractive option.
Until the inevitable para collaspe.

I like Dustin and respect him.

I would have considered going to fly HG with him.
Not going to fly PG...


B R
User avatar
BilleFly
Posts: 1792
Joined: Mon, Feb 22 2010, 07:05:19 pm
Location: Vegas

GOOD ON HIM !!!

Post by BilleFly »

Sounds like Dustin , has a really Cool gig going ; hang out all day, in far
off places, with other pilots , and get paid for it !!! :thumbs up:

He is (Probably) having a Lot more FUN ; than the people who
are gonna be Bad-mouthing him , for doing it. :D

Bille
GOOD RUSH !!!
Steve Forslund
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun, Jan 21 2007, 10:06:19 pm

Post by Steve Forslund »

Ben Reese wrote:A classic example of how to exclusively grow paragliding..

More pilots
More girls
Less hassle

For business and touring it’s an attractive option.
Until the inevitable para collaspe.

I like Dustin and respect him.

I would have considered going to fly HG with him.
Not going to fly PG…


B R
Would have but did not. Many others did the same. Econo.ic reality for Dustin
Steve Forslund
User avatar
Ben Reese
Posts: 1333
Joined: Wed, Sep 25 2013, 12:16:20 pm

Post by Ben Reese »

I have been thinking about Dustin’s new business method.

It is a significant example of how HG is marginalized by an icon of HG.
Dustin was made by two distinct elements..

1. His supreme efforts of learning and applied knowledge..

2. His choice of HG as a flight vehicle, business and lifestyle.

Dustin is also a craftsman of composites and construction of harnesses..
His contributions to HG are extraordinary by general standards..

His switch to exclusive PG is a horrible loss to HG.

Dustin has a legacy that was made by the blood sweat and tears
of generations of HG pilots and contributors in that sport.
We celebrated with him and marveled at his accomplishment..
He earned our praise..

This is hard to say because I really like and respect him.
Yet I feel a sting when he advertises the PG tours as a world
record holder as if it was a PG he flew and excelled on..

Sorry, but it just hurts and I tried to bury that feeling for a week..

When Tomas Suchanek went from HG to world champion in Soaring
it was a marvelous feeling. He did not advertise as an HG world
champion who was going to teach soaring. He started out in soaring
and worked until he excelled enough to win comps and a world
championship in soaring. He proved he could do it with the best
in both sports. He elevated HG in that process and proved it was
a serious soaring sport.

Jim Lee and Manfred Rumer also have this effect of legitimizing
HG in Soaring by winning soaring comps often..

Now others have added to these pilots with HG backgrounds so
often it is now a badge of honor to be such a pilot.. But they all
have to prove themselves 1st, no matter how many HG records
and comps these HG pilots bag..

Would a Sailplane world record holder step down to HG and offer
flying safaris to wannabe HG pilots without notoriety 1st established
in HG? Not likely…

Dustin has the right stuff.
So go do that stuff in PG and win some records and comps, get paid
and then show PG wannabes how they can do it..

What could Dustin do to help save HG?

How about a PG to HG transition workshop?
Now that would be something to celebrate.

The only way I can see USHPA surviving as is, would be to have
more than half the members fly both PG and HG.

Sadly, Para-Collapse stands in the way of that.


B R
User avatar
NMERider
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu, Apr 10 2008, 10:09:34 am
Location: Los Angeles

Post by NMERider »

Jay Z wrote:"Exclusively paragliding?" Sounds like the USHPA.

Even Dustin sells out hang gliding. What a load of crap.
Actually he's not "Exclusively paragliding". That's advertising hyperbole.
I fly my Sport 170 with Dustin on his Ozone Zeno when he's in town.
I have a standing invitation to short pack my S3-170 and fly down to Colombia and join his XC clinic.
I will have transportation waiting for me.
I am an advocate of joint HG/PG X/C flying and have been pursuing this on an off for the past 10 years.
I have flown 3 different hang gliders with the SoCal XC league in their task racing events over the past 7 years.
Only the Sport 2 155 could be flown in relativity close. The others were too fast.
Since that time, the PGs and pilots have gotten better and better while HGs and pilot have been slow to evolve.
My Sport 3 155 proved itself capable of going head to head against a Zeno in ridge racing but it's still too fast and won't do tight and flat enough turns.
With the Sport 3 170 it is possible for a lightweight pilot to fly closely with modern PGs in both climb and glide and without being stuck flying at overly incompatible speeds.
I weigh 163# and my wing loading is around 1.5# sqft whereas Dustin's loading is closer 1.1# sqft of projected wing area.
I have made some innovations to my S3-170 and recently started experimenting with another that may allow me to fly even slower than I already do.
I will put everything into an article I will be submitting to the USHPA magazine which will hopefully reach at least a few interested and willing pilots.
I plan to demo fly a Gecko 170 as well and see whether I can make it do the same type of flying I am getting on my S3 170.
I won't know until I've flown it at a familiar site.

Anyhow, hang gliders have become increasingly problematic because they take up too much room during air transportation and during restricted field landings.
They take too long to setup and breakdown and can't be easily hiked up to launch.
Until an HG pilot has flown head to head against modern PGs and well-trained pilots the realty of our situation may not be evident.
I have been painfully aware of this for nearly a decade.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Ben Reese
Posts: 1333
Joined: Wed, Sep 25 2013, 12:16:20 pm

Post by Ben Reese »

NMERider wrote:
Jay Z wrote:"Exclusively paragliding?" Sounds like the USHPA.

Even Dustin sells out hang gliding. What a load of crap.
Actually he's not "Exclusively paragliding". That's advertising hyperbole.
I fly my Sport 170 with Dustin on his Ozone Zeno when he's in town.
I have a standing invitation to short pack my S3-170 and fly down to Colombia and join his XC clinic.
I will have transportation waiting for me.
I am an advocate of joint HG/PG X/C flying and have been pursuing this on an off for the past 10 years.
I have flown 3 different hang gliders with the SoCal XC league in their task racing events over the past 7 years.
Only the Sport 2 155 could be flown in relativity close. The others were too fast.
Since that time, the PGs and pilots have gotten better and better while HGs and pilot have been slow to evolve.
My Sport 3 155 proved itself capable of going head to head against a Zeno in ridge racing but it's still too fast and won't do tight and flat enough turns.
With the Sport 3 170 it is possible for a lightweight pilot to fly closely with modern PGs in both climb and glide and without being stuck flying at overly incompatible speeds.
I weigh 163# and my wing loading is around 1.5# sqft whereas Dustin's loading is closer 1.1# sqft of projected wing area.
I have made some innovations to my S3-170 and recently started experimenting with another that may allow me to fly even slower than I already do.
I will put everything into an article I will be submitting to the USHPA magazine which will hopefully reach at least a few interested and willing pilots.
I plan to demo fly a Gecko 170 as well and see whether I can make it do the same type of flying I am getting on my S3 170.
I won't know until I've flown it at a familiar site.

Anyhow, hang gliders have become increasingly problematic because they take up too much room during air transportation and during restricted field landings.
They take too long to setup and breakdown and can't be easily hiked up to launch.
Until an HG pilot has flown head to head against modern PGs and well-trained pilots the realty of our situation may not be evident.
I have been painfully aware of this for nearly a decade.

So it’s evolving to go slower and fly shorter distances?

I get that you want to fly with your PG buddies and use them as thermal markers..

I even get the fly slow climb fast idea.. But that is not evolving…

Hiking up with a wing on your shoulder with half the weight of a current topless is evolving..
And if enough HG pilots keep asking for a lighter breakdown model someone will build it.

If you read Dustin’s web page it is exclusive PG touring..

Setup and breakdown is not problematic, just plan for it.
Easier is better and that is an advancement I hope to see.

However saying all this I think slow flying HG is really fun so you need 2 gliders
just like I have had all my years of HG..

If the Para Collapse issue haunting PG’s was eliminated I would have no argument
against them.. Taking away the helicopter rides and crippling low level plummets
would save us all.. Otherwise this reality will soon enough cripple USHPA..

The bigger PG gets the more likely a major law suit will change USHPA for ever..

Banning and expelling people for telling the truth will not help stop it..
If anything it will accelerate it..

In the old days of HG we would never accept the sudden loss of our wing as normal.
Countering that with an emergency deployment as normal.. It is not!

We use the chute as a last resort. We engineer out our risk factors and accept nothing
less than a structured wing able to remain viable in the common atmosphere…


B R
User avatar
NMERider
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu, Apr 10 2008, 10:09:34 am
Location: Los Angeles

Post by NMERider »

Ben Reese wrote:
NMERider wrote:
Jay Z wrote:"Exclusively paragliding?" Sounds like the USHPA.

Even Dustin sells out hang gliding. What a load of crap.
Actually he's not "Exclusively paragliding". That's advertising hyperbole.
I fly my Sport 170 with Dustin on his Ozone Zeno when he's in town.
I have a standing invitation to short pack my S3-170 and fly down to Colombia and join his XC clinic.
I will have transportation waiting for me.
I am an advocate of joint HG/PG X/C flying and have been pursuing this on an off for the past 10 years.
I have flown 3 different hang gliders with the SoCal XC league in their task racing events over the past 7 years.
Only the Sport 2 155 could be flown in relativity close. The others were too fast.
Since that time, the PGs and pilots have gotten better and better while HGs and pilot have been slow to evolve.
My Sport 3 155 proved itself capable of going head to head against a Zeno in ridge racing but it's still too fast and won't do tight and flat enough turns.
With the Sport 3 170 it is possible for a lightweight pilot to fly closely with modern PGs in both climb and glide and without being stuck flying at overly incompatible speeds.
I weigh 163# and my wing loading is around 1.5# sqft whereas Dustin's loading is closer 1.1# sqft of projected wing area.
I have made some innovations to my S3-170 and recently started experimenting with another that may allow me to fly even slower than I already do.
I will put everything into an article I will be submitting to the USHPA magazine which will hopefully reach at least a few interested and willing pilots.
I plan to demo fly a Gecko 170 as well and see whether I can make it do the same type of flying I am getting on my S3 170.
I won't know until I've flown it at a familiar site.

Anyhow, hang gliders have become increasingly problematic because they take up too much room during air transportation and during restricted field landings.
They take too long to setup and breakdown and can't be easily hiked up to launch.
Until an HG pilot has flown head to head against modern PGs and well-trained pilots the realty of our situation may not be evident.
I have been painfully aware of this for nearly a decade.

So it’s evolving to go slower and fly shorter distances?

I get that you want to fly with your PG buddies and use them as thermal markers..

I even get the fly slow climb fast idea.. But that is not evolving…

Hiking up with a wing on your shoulder with half the weight of a current topless is evolving..
And if enough HG pilots keep asking for a lighter breakdown model someone will build it.

If you read Dustin’s web page it is exclusive PG touring..

Setup and breakdown is not problematic, just plan for it.
Easier is better and that is an advancement I hope to see.

However saying all this I think slow flying HG is really fun so you need 2 gliders
just like I have had all my years of HG..

If the Para Collapse issue haunting PG’s was eliminated I would have no argument
against them.. Taking away the helicopter rides and crippling low level plummets
would save us all.. Otherwise this reality will soon enough cripple USHPA..

The bigger PG gets the more likely a major law suit will change USHPA for ever..

Banning and expelling people for telling the truth will not help stop it..
If anything it will accelerate it..

In the old days of HG we would never accept the sudden loss of our wing as normal.
Countering that with an emergency deployment as normal.. It is not!

We use the chute as a last resort. We engineer out our risk factors and accept nothing
less than a structured wing able to remain viable in the common atmosphere…


B R

Sad. So much hostility.
User avatar
Ben Reese
Posts: 1333
Joined: Wed, Sep 25 2013, 12:16:20 pm

Post by Ben Reese »

Wow,

It’s now hostile to speak the truth..

If I was a Hang Glider manufacturer and cared about the future of
my business, I would call what you wrote above hostile!

Quoting “NMERider”:

“”Anyhow, hang gliders have become increasingly problematic because
they take up too much room during air transportation and during restricted
field landings.

They take too long to setup and breakdown and can't be easily hiked up to launch.
Until an HG pilot has flown head to head against modern PGs and well-trained pilots
the realty of our situation may not be evident.
I have been painfully aware of this for nearly a decade.””


Really! “Increasingly Problematic”

In the past 50 years Hang Gliders have become less problematic!
Virtually take up the same room and can fly further to safer
landing fields! They handle better than ever!

Hang Gliders are a pilots aircraft not a parachutists glider!

In comparison, Sailplanes take up the same room, land in the same
spaces but fly further with better glides than ever! Now counting 100 years..
Ditto that for airplanes…

You paraglider advocates are sounding more like a cult than ever..

This is the problem and why we need to split this sport into its own unique category…

Calling us HG pilots hostile, Dinosaurs and much more is a betrayal of the very
efforts that made your sport possible.. I am sick of it!

I love my aluminum and now carbon tubes, battens, cables and Dacron Sail.

They carry me through the angry air with more confidence than the Dacron Puff
and Spectra strings you watch fold and tangle up above you!

I will fold and store my bird while your free to stuff bag your parachute…

Be careless with your life, I will have none of it!!

This is a Hang Gliding forum and you come in here to tout PG and bash HG..

You being 1st an HG pilot is disgusting, and I am being polite…

Your not giving any new information, just propaganda for your perceived advantages.
The advantages you claim are not as highly valued by Hang Glider Pilots..
We are happy with our 20’ tubes and 80lbs of flying hardware..

Sure lighter and smaller is better if it is as safe! Not less safe!

You are a follower not a leader.. Real leaders take the unpopular path and
prove it’s value. They don’t jump in with the crowd and give up their advantages
like slowing down and going slower because everyone else is doing it…

They don’t take people on a careless folly.. Those leaders are replaced by ones
who secure lives, not put them at risk..

This is why Wills Wing is the #1 HG Manufacturer in the world… They lead in a
very serious and dangerous sport.. They are trusted.

Not one PG pilot trusts his PG like a Glider pilot trusts his WW glider.

PG pilots trust their reserves! They are trained not to trust their Para Glider…
Well if not then they should be trained not to trust it.. It’s a crime not to teach that!

Regarding your coming article on how to make a HG fly as slow as a PG so you
can buddy up and be the happy family…

It is not as safe to fly so slow. Airspeed is safety, enough to counter turbulence..
But if your glider stalls, at least your wing will not collapse.
Maybe you can convert some PG ‘s to slow HG pilots..

Good for you…


B R