How USHPA CAN work for you

A discussion restricted to the topic of hang gliding.
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AlanC
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How USHPA CAN work for you

Post by AlanC »

Here's the scenario as presented:

"We didn't have a local admin to run an instructor clinic here at Andy Jackson Flight Park in San Bernardino, California so a group of local pilots paid Paul Voight to fly out. Despite Paul's experience and credentials (let's us just say that they are vast), he wasn't allowed to conduct the clinic at Crestline. Same story for Zac, who until recently was the only west coast tandem administrator, but wasn't allowed to give clinics at any USHPA sites. The USHPA should have paid all these expenses, and clinic administrators should have blanket coverage at all sites."

I have a lot of sympathy for this sentiment. We're still working through some of the new challenges of insurance through the RRG and doing our best to ensure that everyone can access training/certifications under the new requirements. It's not always clear cut, so we're also continuing to work to make the process easier to navigate.

There are at least 3 ways to hold an instructor clinic at an insured site with an administrator from elsewhere:

1) If there is a local PASA insured school, add the Administrator as an instructor for the duration of the clinic. This is fast, easy and pretty inexpensive. The administrator is going to be a known quantity, so easily approved. The PASA school will have a risk management plan. Done!

2) (Warning - this one is marginal) If the Administrator has a PASA insured school somewhere else (which doesn't fit this particular case), they could add the insured site to their list of teaching sites. This would need a risk management plan and bump their PASA membership cost. Probably not a good option, but it would work.

3) Have the club host the clinic as an ACE event. Again, this is quick, easy and inexpensive. The club already has a risk management plan (they may need to add an instruction component) so the ACE event paperwork is pretty simple. Costs are low and again, an Administrator is a known quantity and easily approved.

So, if you are a club (or an Administrator) looking to hold a clinic at an insured site, GO FOR IT! The roadmap is above.

The boards of each organization (USHPA and the RRG) are responsible for setting policies like the ones above, and Martin (as USHPA's executive director) is tasked with implementing USHPA's policies. Martin and Tim take a lot of hits as they are often the folks who have to say "we can't do it that way", but they are also really dedicated and motivated to advancing the future of our sport. If you run into something that looks like a roadblock (as this was presented), call Martin and he'll try to figure something out. It won't always be exactly what you asked for, but these guys can usually figure a way to make things work.

We've recently increased outreach to instructors and chapters and we're hearing more about what's working well and what isn't. Among other initiatives, we're currently working to revamp our committee system to get more done both between and at board meetings, in order to meaningfully build on pilots' ideas and concerns and to help hang gliding and paragliding thrive. As always, we welcome members to volunteer for a committee and help shape USHPA's policies: www.ushpa.org/page/volunteer-opportunities

Thanks for reading and caring,

Alan
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Ben Reese
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Post by Ben Reese »

1st,

Alan, your posting this stuff a week after the beginning of the 2nd reform vote.

Why not address these issues between the reform votes?

Why not 2 years ago?

Why don't our best and brightest instructors already know this stuff?

It looks insincere and it is sort of late...


2nd, "(Warning - this one is marginal)"

So I am an H4 and I go get some training in KY and get a special skill signoff.
I come out to CA and want to fly Funston. My new skills do not satisfy Funston
because I did not do a "Risk Management Plan!"

These are INSTRUCTORS training local pilots at their site.

Just stop this lunacy!!!!

Yes, I made that up but it is the same thing.
Your skills and ratings go with you!
They are not conditional based on location!
Especially if you are an instructor who is invited!!!

If your going out of country, then whatever that country wants, you do..
KY and CA are not separate countries even though it feels that way ðÿ¤”.
Well maybe if this keeps up..


3rd,

A local admin???
To much RED tape...

USHPA off'ed its building in Boulder, CO because of technology and virtual location..
It's called a "dot Org" (Oops) .Org
Fill out an online form and submit qualifications.. Approved!!!

Alan, I am not impressed with your roadmap..

Feels more like a spiders web...

I also did not like your reform video...

After watching that and reading this, I don't like the way you think..


"Ben Reese...oh, never mind."
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Davis
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Post by Davis »

There really should be no need for a work around. There should be positive encouragement for these gentleman and others to go to various sites and instruct.

Alan, you have not addressed the fact that Zippy doesn't have a single site and PASA and the RRRG does not accommodate this.

I'm quite certain that all the USHPA BOD members, USHPA personnel, the RRRG volunteers, and Tim Herr have the best interests of the organizations and membership at heart and that they work hard to do the right thing. The problem is the solutions that they have come up with are killing the sport.

Please use the model of the https://uspa.org/ to see how we should organize ourselves for substantial growth.
Entelin
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Post by Entelin »

The fact that you had to write that much on the subject indicates to me that it's totally broken. I didn't even know this was an issue. If you hold the credentials, then that should be the end of the conversation.
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AlanC
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More thoughts

Post by AlanC »

Davis wrote:There really should be no need for a work around. There should be positive encouragement for these gentleman and others to go to various sites and instruct.
- No argument here.
Davis wrote:Alan, you have not addressed the fact that Zippy doesn't have a single site and PASA and the RRRG does not accommodate this.
- You are correct. Personally I think we should encourage instructors to take their P2/H2 students to multiple sites as part of their training program; but this is very hard to do with the current program. The RRRG is working on a way to address this, but I get it...no credit for trying; just doing.
Davis wrote:I'm quite certain that all the USHPA BOD members, USHPA personnel, the RRRG volunteers, and Tim Herr have the best interests of the organizations and membership at heart and that they work hard to do the right thing.
- Thank you.
Davis wrote:The problem is the solutions that they have come up with are killing the sport.
- It is definitely harder, more time consuming, and more expensive to be an instructor today than it was pre-insurance crisis. But, we do have insurance and have preserved places to fly; both of which also seem like essential components of the survival of the sport. Paragliding now has more instructors than before the crisis using the same solutions. Don't get me wrong, I think the small (and shrinking) volume of H1/H2's we're producing is unsustainable over the long term. While overall USHPA membership is up, hang gliding continues to trend down. Why the difference given the similar circumstances??
Davis wrote:Please use the model of the https://uspa.org/ to see how we should organize ourselves for substantial growth.
- It worked for them though they had far less of the insurance weight to carry...

Thank you,

Alan
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Ben Reese
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Post by Ben Reese »

Alan,

I have another idea that you can use, or just call it your own idea.

1. Let's reduce the number of regions and reduce the number of Regional Directors.

2. Let's change the bylaws so we can choose our own BOD with existing BOD.

3. We can still have a membership vote as long as there are as few as 50 votes
or 5% for any candidate; Then the BOD will decide who gets the seat!

These doopy pilots trust us enough to believe this is better for them!
We are doing such a good job for them they will beleive anything!
"Shush, don't repeat my last comment".


Just smile, do a youtube video and sell your idea just like a cigarette commercial does!
Everyone knows cig's kill ya, but they keep selling more.

Let's try some ourselvesðÿ˜¤. That will be really convincing...


PS,
Don't tell anybody this was my idea because,

"Ben Reese...oh, never mind."

Ooops!!
Just soot me in the head for missing this one!!

Look at this Link of USPA regional map.

It has 14 Regions and 14 Regional Directors with
8 additional directors at large!

https://uspa.org/Regions

Click on link above and choose any region then click on more info..

This crushes our argument for going from 12 Regions to 5..
We look obvious making this power grab by reducing the opportunity for dissent.

How can we dis-credit this Org of jumpers who go straight downâ›±?

We ignore them because we are an Org of flyers who 's members actually fly around?ðÿ¤”


"Ben Reese...oh, never mind."
Last edited by Ben Reese on Wed, Apr 24 2019, 10:42:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Davis
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Post by Davis »

Alan wrote: "It worked for them though they had far less of the insurance weight to carry..." In a rational world it would seem to me that meat missiles and hang gliders could produce similar third party affects.
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AlanC
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Post by AlanC »

Davis wrote:
In a rational world it would seem to me that meat missiles and hang gliders could produce similar third party affects.
In a rational world they might be close, but we have the advantage of multi-directional flight, we are not confined to a small, pre-defined airspace cone, and of course there are the complications of XC, equipment on launch...

- Alan
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Steve Pearson
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Post by Steve Pearson »

AlanC wrote:
Davis wrote:
In a rational world it would seem to me that meat missiles and hang gliders could produce similar third party affects.
In a rational world they might be close, but we have the advantage of multi-directional flight, we are not confined to a small, pre-defined airspace cone, and of course there are the complications of XC, equipment on launch...

- Alan
Alan, The director of the USPA explained why their insurance costs are lower, and many other successful initiatives that helped revitalize their sport. Honestly, I was stunned at the level of support that they provide their community but it seems that no one other than Matt and I took anything away from that meeting.

We talked about these issues and many more when you visited Wills Wing. In the letter I shared with Davis and the following comments, I omitted some of the most contentious and egregious issues and examples. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm trying to save our sport. We can't do that without more support for instructors and schools which have been decimated by the insurance and bureaucratic changes of the last few years. Many if not most of these changes do nothing to advance safety.
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Christopher
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Post by Christopher »

For those of us who have no clue who "Alan C" is- or other Association parties obscured by abbreviation and lack of title -you may try to unravel that mystery here:

https://www.ushpa.org/page/board-of-dir ... 2018fa216a

...and here:

https://www.ushpa.org/page/team?Website ... izerCommon

I suppose "Alan C" is "Alan Crouse", Executive Committee President- do I have that right? Alan, perhaps you could help make a few things explicitly clear: in the quoted example you lead with- "Despite Paul's experience and credentials (let's us just say that they are vast), he wasn't allowed to conduct the clinic at Crestline" -who prevented Paul from instructing? Which of your 3 suggested solutions would have accommodated instruction in this case? Was that solution proffered? If no, why not? Was it proffered and rejected? If so, why?

What do you mean by "an administrator from elsewhere"? Have you just nominated the would-be instructor the 'administrator' of the clinic, or does being an "administrator" signify and require something other than holding a USHPA Instructor certification?

How many PASA-insured hang gliding-specific schools are there? Could you list them? It would help us understand the extent of the problem.
AlanC wrote:We're still working through some of the new challenges of insurance through the RRG and doing our best to ensure that everyone can access training/certifications under the new requirements.
Please list those challenges, a projected date by which each will be addressed, and proposed methods of address.
Davis wrote:I'm quite certain that all the USHPA BOD members, USHPA personnel, the RRRG volunteers, and Tim Herr have the best interests of the organizations and membership at heart and that they work hard to do the right thing. The problem is the solutions that they have come up with are killing the sport.
The impression from what you've written here, Alan- both in tone and specifics of response -is that you don't agree with the last part of Davis' summation. Is it your belief, Alan, that hang gliding in the United States will survive in some substantial form- or even thrive -under these policies as they are presently implemented? This is a point that must be made explicitly clear- does your understanding diverge from folks like Davis Straub, Steven Pearson, and many would-be instructors? Such a disconnect would profoundly impact moral and confidence of membership for the stewardship of our association. Frankly, most everybody knows and respects these folks- and wouldn't know you or Martin Palmaz, even if enjoying the shade of the same tree.
AlanC wrote:It is definitely harder, more time consuming, and more expensive to be an instructor today than it was pre-insurance crisis. But, we do have insurance and have preserved places to fly; both of which also seem like essential components of the survival of the sport.
It seems like you're saying 'hurray! -we saved the patient' and Davis, Steven, 'no- you've just put a tourniquet around the neck.' Insurance, flying sites- what are they without instructors? These conjoined twins share a heart, right?

AlanC wrote:Paragliding now has more instructors than before the crisis using the same solutions. Don't get me wrong, I think the small (and shrinking) volume of H1/H2's we're producing is unsustainable over the long term. While overall USHPA membership is up, hang gliding continues to trend down. Why the difference given the similar circumstances??
The "long term" is right now- not tomorrow, not next week - NOW. This last question you ask- it seems really important. Was it just rhetorical? Do you have an answer, or suggested course of discovery? Or are you suggesting the problem isn't with regulation choices, but is purely an expression of hang gliding culture?
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