Short Pack

A discussion restricted to the topic of hang gliding.
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The Oz Report
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Short Pack

Post by The Oz Report »

<i>Leaving on a jet plane</i><span class="GoogleMapLink"></a>Big Spring, Texas, USA</a>)</span><p>Alejandro Isaza<<a href="http://ozreport.com/emailer.php?toName= ... oisaza></a>> writes:</p><p class="BN">I want to follow on Dieter Meyer post (a friend from Guatemala), with this message to encourage Hang Gliding manufacturers to redesign hang gliders.</p><p class="BN">I think very much the same as Dieter does and I am also worried, because it is getting more and more difficult to carry a hang glider on airlines. It is difficult to to carry them on airports and even more for the airlines to accept them. I have heard many stories about pilots who have not being able to load their gliders on airplanes, to the point that is getting discouraging to travel at all with a hang glider.</p><p class="BN">I had to leave my hang glider in Rome once as the airline did not take it. I was lucky not to loose it because others pilots traveling the next day were able to load it in a another airline.</p><p class="BN">The truth is that a packed glider is still to big to be carried as luggage around airports (perhaps the longest luggage you will see in a airport) and the longest to load on a plane. They raise many eyebrows in airports and airline counters, not to mention the passengers behind you in the line at the counter as you fight !! With attendants to get your glider aboard.</p><p class="BN">I do want to send a message to hang glider manufacturers urging them to redesign hang gliders so they can be packed to a much shorter size to be able to carry them anywhere even if it takes more time for the pilot to assemble it.</p><p class="BN">I don't design hang gliders and don't know the difficulties about it, but I think that if the length of a packed glider can be shorten 1 more meter they would be better accepted by airlines. I see no problem shortening the keel by disassembling the last part of it. Can the crossbars be attached to the leading edges much forward? So that the wing tips can be made longer and thus when disassembled shorten all ? Can crossbars be made in more sections? Wings in more sections? Detachable crossbars? There has to be a good design to solve this problem.</p><p class="BN">This is important for our sport !!! And is one of the great things hang gliders have. The fact they can be carried anywhere to fly at different places around the world. Otherwise we will be confined to fly only at our local sites and sites close by and not be able to attend to international competitions.</p><p class="BN">So please hang glider manufacturers (WILLS WING, ICARO, AEROS, MOYES, BAUTEC, AIRBORNE, etc) get into it and design hang gliders so they can be more easily carried and accepted in all airlines. If you do, you will surely make a good improvement to our sport, get a big applause from us and most important bigger sales.</p>
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Skyordie
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Location: Ohrid, Macedonia

Post by Skyordie »

Aeros make gliders that can be really short packed.

Fox is 2.5m breakable
Discus B is 2m breakable
and
Combat C is 3.5 breakable
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Davis
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Post by Davis »

Well, there you go.
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Franklingrx
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Post by Franklingrx »

Some years back I asked Wills Wing guys at the Wallaby fly-in if they planned a break down version of the U2 like the falcon... "no market for it" was the answer as I remember.
Bob Franklin
Florida/Maui
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Gordonrigg
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Post by Gordonrigg »

The aeros gliders originally packed very short as they had to work with short tube lengths as raw material.
I hear that the latest full carbon option GT will pack shorter than most, maybe 3.5m. The limit is the cross bar length. Meanwhile the std Aeros GT long packed is actually too long to be legal on a car, unless you have an unusually long car, in many European countries (not UK).

The moyes Rx3.5 packs to 3.85 m if you remove the inner sprogs. Take care to tape up the adjustment if you do that. The spec 4.24m is with the sprogs still attached.

If you want shorter packing gliders, the question is how much of a weight penalty would you accept?

There is also a weight limit of 32kg for any hold baggage item in UK. You have to strip parts off the glider to make that weight limit and have packing that stands a chance of protecting the glider. Then you must take precaution against it taking on water on the way to the airport too!
I do so love going through airports with gliders...

Incoming into Heathrow there was a security gate like an airlock that was too short, and supervisors had to override it to let the gliders through. This is the sort of thing that gets in the way and makes it too much hassle for the airlines to take us. Increasing automation and streamlining of baggage systems works against us, and makes it easier for it to be "more than my jobs worth" to accept us.
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winDfried
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Joined: Thu, Feb 05 2004, 03:32:56 am
Location: Mainz, Germany

Re: Short Pack

Post by winDfried »

The Oz Report wrote:… BAUTEC, …
As the german manufacturer Bautek is mentioned in the article:
The bow sprit gliders from them, current model "Astir", are comfortably shortpackable to 3 m.
No crossbar, leading edges separable at two sites, no screwdriver needed.
Tubes remain in the sail, thus easy and comfy also to rig from shortpack.

They are of course not up in the field in open competitions,
but with the reemerging occasions for sport class gliders, maybe.
Smooth and docile to fly, easy to aero tow. A bit challenging on landing,
but doable http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIi5MUwaLzU.

The Finsterwalder 2 m shortpack system is until now unbeaten though,
and to adventure flying destinations I have airplane travelled with ease several times
with a Fexi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noXOrnpXg2U ,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5OYDtr8Wn0 ,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dawAhJo--w ,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDAq20M2CX0 .

The patent should run out latest in 2016 :wink:
I am calmly awaiting the copycats, W.
Terry
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Location: Florida

Short Pack

Post by Terry »

It is not terribly difficult to design an existing glider to short-short pack, just takes time and money. A U-2 145 could be made to breakdown to 69."

United Airlines goes to most places in the world. Following is their policy regarding hang gliders. The problem - hence the need for 69" - is the restriction of 72" on 737's - the most common airliner worldwide.

"Sports equipment

United Airlines will accept most sporting equipment items. Specific guidelines and packaging requirements may apply. Select an item below for more information.

Hang gliding equipment
Individual hang gliding equipment components can generally be packed in separate bags for each component. United will accept a maximum of two items per bag for a set of four component bags for a service charge of $100 (each way) for travel between the U.S., Canada, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands and $200 (each way) for international travel. The combined weight for all hang gliding equipment components cannot exceed 99.9 pounds (45.4 kg).

Excess Valuation may not be purchased for hang gliding equipment.

Maximum length allowed varies by aircraft type. Hang gliding equipment that is more than 72 inches (183 cm) in length cannot be accommodated on 737 series aircraft. Hang gliding equipment that is 108 inches (274.4 cm) in length or more cannot be accommodated on Airbus A320 or Airbus A319 aircraft.

Allow an extra 30 minutes at check-in.

Hang gliding equipment is not accepted as checked baggage on United Express flights.

Hang gliding equipment will not be accepted during an excess baggage embargo."

Unfortunately, the more restricted dimensions above apply to the most common airliners in the world. When I piloted them, pre 911, I could get on the ramp and load a full length glider on most models of the 737, but you cannot expect an airline employee to risk their excellent job by bending the written policy. Best you can do is try and find a flight that uses something else - 757, 767, etc.

TR
Terry
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