Landings

A discussion restricted to the topic of hang gliding.
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Mike B
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Joined: Tue, Mar 11 2008, 11:31:58 pm
Location: Spokane Washington USA

Post by Mike B »

Javad wrote:RM, Mike and Blindrodie,

Your feedbacks are really appreciated. I am still learning and landing is an issue for me and most hg pilots over here. I am trying to translate and transfer these info to them as well. Here they say you have to fly at trim throughout your ground skim phase, which contradicts what you guys say and I think what you say makes more sense and I am definitely going to try and learn this technique.

RM, your note on the difficulty of moonwalk landing makes sense to me as we usually fly in rugged mountain sites.

Mike, that's a nice landing video! your idea about using airspeed indicator in landing is new to me, thanks.

Blindrodie, thanks for the note about vario. Mine is audio-only but some of my friends here have more advanced varios. I will tell them about it.

so far, I have usually ran out the landing or was lucky with flares but there were times that I messed up the flare. some because of late flare and some because of weak flare. So I will try trim+1 to see how it works for me.

Thanks, but I'm not saying to use the airspeed indicator for landing, Im saying use it and tuffs on the glider to see where you are trimmed at and and what speed your glider stalls. (Tufts aren't necessary, but can be a very useful tool)
How close to your stall speed you are trimmed, affects your flare timing.
The more you are trimmed above stall, the longer you will wait after "trim" speed to flare.
If that makes sense.
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Javad
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Joined: Wed, Nov 16 2016, 07:29:25 am

Post by Javad »

Ok, thanks for clearing it. I get it, find how fast the glider's trim speed is, so that you know the right time to flare or fix the trim if neseccary.
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Remmoore
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Post by Remmoore »

Javad wrote:…landing is an issue for me and most hg pilots over here. Here they say you have to fly at trim throughout your ground skim phase…
Javad, I think those two statements are likely related. Coming into ground effect at trim speed gives a pilot very little time to calculate when to flair. Having additional energy in ground effect can give you better control against turbulence or crosswinds, and should lead to better landings.

RM
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Javad
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Joined: Wed, Nov 16 2016, 07:29:25 am

Post by Javad »

Yes, I agree,I think when we are flying that close to stall, a slight change in the wind speed or direction can cause the wing to stall and close to the ground there is plenty of changes in the wind. It still feels kind of unnatural to flare hard a second after you hit the trim as I am used to the long ground skim phase at trim and flaring when my feet are about to hit the ground, but I see you guys doing it without problem and I am going to try it.
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DougM
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Joined: Tue, Jul 07 2015, 05:03:42 pm

Re: Landings

Post by DougM »

This is a bit late response, Javad, but here goes...
Where do you fly? What kind of conditions are your LZs that you typically land in?

Most HG pilots who have problems landing all have one thing in common. They are all far too slow on their final close approach. I believe most people are afraid of perceived speed, especially when approaching hard things like the ground. Too many pilots are in trim condition or just barely above trim on their close-final approach, which doesn't allow them enough energy to round-out into ground effect. It always results in a Whack!
The solution is that faster approach airspeeds are your best friend. When flying a Falcon (which your avatar seemingly indicates) your close-approach airspeed should be at least 'best glide,' which for me on my F195 at hook-in weight of 235 lbs is around 24 - 25 mph indicated (stall is at 17 - 17.5 mph) at a DA (Density Altitude) of 3000' msl or so when approaching a 'flat ground' LZ. When approaching a steep up-hill landing, the airspeed is higher than that, and can seem as if you're flying right into a wall.
I love the way a Falcon can dive into an RLF (restricted landing field -- a very small, tight LZ with possible tall obstructions) and bleed-off airspeed very quickly. In those areas, I actually dive pretty hard on approach, then round-out with my feet at about 5-7 ft above the ground so that I am not in the typical close ground-effect and it does not appreciably reduce my wing's induced drag like it would if I was so close to the ground to be almost dragging my feet. Then bleed off airspeed as I approach the ground toward my chosen landing spot.
In a relatively big, level LZ, you should approach at best glide airspeed and no less. Yes, it may seem quite fast relative to the ground, but you're not to worry about the ground-speed, right? Right! Round-out into ground effect with your feet perhaps two feet above the ground You'll still be cruising at just under best glide immediately after your round-out. Let your airspeed fade as you maintain that two feet of altitude between feet and ground. I typically just let my toes just barely touch the ground as an altitude indicator. At the point in your ground skim that you feel zero control bar pressure (trim position), you count to 'one' or possibly 'one-two' and then flare with authority, making sure that your wing is level before doing so.
You've watched Jim's videos, so you understand the hand transition to the downtubes. I always have one hand on the control bar and one hand on the downtube in my close approach (OUOD). In flat LZ landings, I transition my control-bar hand to the downtube when I detect trim condition, then give it one more count and flare. On up-hill landings, I transition my control-bar hand to the downtubes during my rotation up the hill, because the flare is almost immediately after the rotation typically with a Falcon. I typically have a bit longer ground-skim up a steep hill on a double surface glider.
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