New Pilot Looking For Recommendations

A discussion restricted to the topic of hang gliding.
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ACLaversa
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Post by ACLaversa »

Aaron S wrote: Here's a bit of a secret about hang gliding and hang gliders; people tend to think that it is the type of glider that defines what sort of pilot they are, but the reality is that it is the type of pilot that defines what sort of glider a glider is. In other words, too many people think they need a Sport 2 over a Falcon, or a U2 over a Sport 2, or a T2 over a U2 in order to be a real pilot, a good pilot, and advancing or advanced pilot. That's a myth. The truth is, a pilot demonstrates his or her aptitude regardless of glider type. A superior pilot on a Falcon is recognizable as a top pilot by the way he flies, and an inferior pilot on a topless glider is clearly recognizable by the way he flies.
This is a spectacular point, and one I have come to realize. My analysis of the gliders is a side project...it just happened to intertwine itself with my current goals. Please do not confuse the fact that I started this thread out looking at the characteristics and data of intermediate gliders with a solid intent to make one of them my first wing. I was trying to understand the differences between novice/beginner gliders vs. intermediate ones so I knew if that was something I should be concerned with going into this, but of course I learned that it was not, and my focus should be novice/beginner gliders.
Aaron S wrote: When most often the desire to move up the ladder to more elaborate gliders is motivated by one's own self image and not by the honest limitations imposed by the current glider, the result is that instead of the pilot appearing to observers as an advancing, "cool" pilot, they tend to appear to be goofy and not so cool.
Again, I am not concerned with what is "cool"...and hope other greenhorns are not either...if they are they will never get the enjoyment they can out of the sport. I have been told that from every person I have asked, including my father. I will be starting with a Falcon level glider, perhaps even the Falcon itself...though I cannot seem to find many used ones
Aaron S wrote: Dude, if you have a real "passion" for flight, then you ought to get away from the keyboard and get a Falcon, go get trained, and start flying. The joys of flight cannot be found within the pages of books, articles or pseudo-scientific theories.
I wish I could, many things are preventing me from taking action right now...winter, lack-o-funds, car trouble and family responsibilities. I will as soon as I can, trust me!
Aaron S wrote: What you think is research and development shortage within the industry is misguided fantasy. Until you have mastered the gliding experience, blown your eyelids back while hanging your hide out in the wind under one of these supposedly poorly designed airfoils, you've got no idea whether or not they need improvement...Until you become a hang glider pilot, you really ought to reserve judgment on equipment, and while you are at it, reserve judgment on how good a pilot you might some day hope to become.
To be frank I have been studying aerodynamics and airfoils since I was about twelve. They have always interested me. I may not know as much as someone with a degree, or lifetime of real life R&D, but I do see room for a more quantifiable study/improvement. That is all I was stating, and the quotes I posted simply showed that there are those who know much more than myself and still feel the same.
All the data I have gathered and posted here was for the purpose of discussion and through that discussion a furthering of my knowledge. By understanding the mechanics, I understand the theory. That combined with reading stories about flight experiences written by experienced HG pilots makes me feel more comfortable facing the risks all pilots must face.
Also, if I am put into a situation I have not encountered before while in flight I should be able to make an educated guess on how to save my hide using all that knowledge. My father and I are both firm believers in understanding all that you can about an activity where your life is on the line...before, during, and after you start.
Forever in the shadow of a true pilot, C.A. Laversa 1950 -
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ACLaversa
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Post by ACLaversa »

Ridgerat,

Thanks for that video post, that was very neat to see and hear. Worth the time for anyone interested in the dynamics of a flex-wing.

...and for those who have not seen Marshall Falcon...

phpBB [video]
Forever in the shadow of a true pilot, C.A. Laversa 1950 -
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Blindrodie
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Good stuff to see.

Post by Blindrodie »

Sweet. Reminds me of, well, ME in my F 195. It will wang with the best. And spiraling down tight building up massive G's, uh huh that too. Fun.

If only folks could feel the forces build and dissipate when one flies like this. Pretty surprising...

I missed the kiss from your wife though.
Jim

Tow me up. I'll find my way down
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ACLaversa
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Post by ACLaversa »

I just felt since it was mentioned I'd post it as inspiration. It defiantly gave me a strong impulse to keep learning and preparing for my journey into the world of flight.
Forever in the shadow of a true pilot, C.A. Laversa 1950 -
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Aaron S
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Post by Aaron S »

ACLaversa wrote:I just felt since it was mentioned I'd post it as inspiration. It defiantly gave me a strong impulse to keep learning and preparing for my journey into the world of flight.
AC, the world of hang gliding is so full of great flying experiences as well as life and character building experiences. You probably already know most of that already, but I say that for others that may also be coming into the sport and reading up on this stuff. Where do you live, the east coast? If you can, you ought to hook up with some other pilots, new or old, and do a bit of carpooling, caravanning, roaming around the country to different fun events. Pilots are a cool bunch, they tend to open their homes and help others find a way to fulfill their dreams of flight.

I know that used Falcons are hard to come by. The reason isn't because they are such a rare glider, but more so because people realize once they have had one that there is little reason to part with them. You can find intermediate and advanced gliders at a dime a dozen on the market, but it's hard to find used Falcons most of the time. I'd like to get a 195 for myself; Kerie and I share time on our 170 and I'd just as soon have a larger one to keep the wing loading down a bit. For various reasons, sink rate, G loads, you name it. But keep looking, and asking around. You get a Falcon, you will never regret it. They totally rock. And of course, when you get to be wanting more performance, better glide, better penetration, maybe more aero or race potential, you will find a way to get that second glider. Like I said, they are a dime a dozen.

Once you get your rig's problems worked out, get a bit of money for some gas, or maybe hook up with some other pilots interested in a road trip, come on out to Washington and we can go fly and hang out. You'll have a good time!

Aaron
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Aaron S
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Re: Good stuff to see.

Post by Aaron S »

Blindrodie wrote:Sweet. Reminds me of, well, ME in my F 195. It will wang with the best. And spiraling down tight building up massive G's, uh huh that too. Fun.

If only folks could feel the forces build and dissipate when one flies like this. Pretty surprising...

I missed the kiss from your wife though.
I missed the kiss too! But she wasn't on that road trip to Marshall. And it was good to get home afterwards too.

Yep, I think far too many people overlook the potential in each glider. Because I do the aero thing, I get to hear a lot of talk about it, and one thing that is way too commonly said is when pilots think that they need to move up to a double surface or topless glider to "start" doing aero. Without ever having experimented or practiced on their Falcons, or other intermediate gliders first. While single surfaced gliders are not capable of the more radical maneuvers like loops or twisties, there is an incredible envelope that they can perform within. It's kind of funny when those kinds of pilots that have moved to the more difficult gliders in order to have that aero potential are out there doing such benign maneuvers only once in a blue moon, trying to figure them out, and I jump off in the Falcon and wang it far steeper than any other local pilot can tip their double surfaces or toplesses.

I say that not to encourage anyone to go out and start punishing their gliders or attempting things they are not prepared for, but to illustrate the disconnect between pilots and their gear. They don't use their heads. If I can go out and consistently run alternating 150 or 160 degree wingovers in a Falcon, then why would anyone need to jump on a topless to begin to learn 80 degree or 90 degree wingovers? Makes no sense. Stay on the easy to fly gliders and max out their capability before moving on to something else.

We ought to put together a Falcon-Fest and have some fun demonstrating that there really is more to them than some people think.
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ACLaversa
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Post by ACLaversa »

Cheers to both posts Aaron, thanks for all your input...it is valued.
Forever in the shadow of a true pilot, C.A. Laversa 1950 -
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ACLaversa
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Post by ACLaversa »

I found this to be very important to my understanding of flight and the lessons learned from it will help me to conceptualize many aspects of my future endeavors. For those that still use the Bernoulli Principle as their foundation of understanding I urge you to read this...

The article linked was written by David Anderson, Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, and Scott Eberhardt, formerly of the Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics, University of Washington, now at the Boeing Company. The authors have written an updated copy of this article and provide it for all to use (Posted below). The article is copyrighted by the authors and by Sport Aviation magazine in which this article appeared in February, 1999. More can be found in their book, Understanding Flight.
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Forever in the shadow of a true pilot, C.A. Laversa 1950 -
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Aaron S
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Post by Aaron S »

ACLaversa wrote:I found this to be very important to my understanding of flight and the lessons learned from it will help me to conceptualize many aspects of my future endeavors. For those that still use the Bernoulli Principle as their foundation of understanding I urge you to read this...

The article linked was written by David Anderson, Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, and Scott Eberhardt, formerly of the Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics, University of Washington, now at the Boeing Company. The authors have written an updated copy of this article and provide it for all to use (Posted below). The article is copyrighted by the authors and by Sport Aviation magazine in which this article appeared in February, 1999. More can be found in their book, Understanding Flight.
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Ridgerodent
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Post by Ridgerodent »

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