New Pilot Looking For Recommendations

A discussion restricted to the topic of hang gliding.
Ridgerodent
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Post by Ridgerodent »

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David Williamson
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Pilot in Command

Post by David Williamson »

Getting advice is very good; the more advice the better when it's being offered by people with experience. It is only advice though. The final decision rests with you. If an instructor advises you that the weather is good, but you feel otherwise, then you don't have to follow that advice. You will gain confidence by making your own decisions based on advice. Try different gliders to see what you like before buying one; there are some nice single-surface and nice double-surface intermediate gliders. Don't feel the need to move up to an advanced glider until you've done everything that you think you're going to do with your intermediate. You will amaze yourself with the possibilities of an aircraft which you can carry around on you shoulder! There's a lot of fun out there but don't trade safety for performance.
Paragliding.........it's almost like flying.
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Fred Wilson
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Post by Fred Wilson »

Christian Williams:
You inadvertently posted the same url for the Knee Hanger and Pod Threads.
Too many articles up there to fish through. Could you please edit your post putting in the updated and correct url for the Pod Harness story?

Plus, insert %20 for the space left between knee hanger AND Pod harness so the url's work.

Thanking you in return by saying: Check out "Winter Blues Reading Material"
at: http://www.flyok.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=437
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ACLaversa
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Post by ACLaversa »

Perhaps we should move the flytec to a new topic so that it will be easier to search verses posting here. Although, putting a link for Greenhorns up here, over to the new topic would be great. Can any of the admins do this?
Forever in the shadow of a true pilot, C.A. Laversa 1950 -
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Jim Rooney
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Post by Jim Rooney »

Agreed.
How'd we go from new pilot advice into "geekland" competition level GPS debate?

Doesn't belong here.
Jim
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ACLaversa
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Post by ACLaversa »

I found that the articles on the WW site really helped too:


<a href="http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Artic ... History">A Brief History Of Hang Gliding, Paragliding, and Wills Wing by Mike Meier</a>

The history of hang gliding - which is the history of flight itself - from Lilienthal up to modern times. Includes the history of Wills Wing and recent developments in the sport, like paragliding.

<a href="http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Artic ... Aerobatics in Hang Gliders: Understanding Operating Limitations by Mike Meier</a>

A discussion of the concept of "operating limitations" as they apply to hang gliders, how such limitations are determined, how hang gliders are tested, and recommendations concerning performing aerobatic maneuvers with hang gliders.

<a href="http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Artic ... ontrolling Roll/Yaw Oscillations on Flex Wing Hang Gliders by Mike Meier</a>

Discussion of causes and remedies for a common flying situation.

<a href="http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Artic ... Dees">Hang Glider Design and Performance by Paul Dees</a>

This article</a> is available only as a PDF file.

Originally presented and published at the 10th AIAA Aviation Technology, Integration, and Operations (ATIO) Conference, 13 - 15 September 2010, Fort Worth, Texas.

<a href="http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Artic ... card">Hang Glider Placard Specifications by Wills Wing Support</a>

Hook-in weight ranges, operating limitations, as listed on our hang glider placards, for both current and non-current Wills Wing hang gliders. (Imperial and Metric units)

<a href="http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Artic ... hoose">How To Choose Your First Glider by Mike Meier</a>

An Overview of the Decisions That Need to be Considered When Choosing One's First Glider

<a href="http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Artic ... eight">How To Get The Right Hang Height by Mike Meier</a>

Discussion of hang height and hang angle with instructions for finding your desired hang height and properly specifying and ordering a custom hang loop. Notes on mains length with respect to WW Standard, DHV Standard, and Rotor harnesses.

<a href="http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Artic ... Glider">Is This The Right Glider For Me? by Mike Meier</a>

An overview of our hang glider line with short descriptions of each model and the types of pilots, flight parameters and conditions for which they are intended

<a href="http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Artic ... d">Lessons Learned &acirc;&euro;&ldquo; Equipment Maintenance by Mike Meier</a>

Short article stressing the importance of inspection and maintenance of aircraft, even something as simple and reliable as a Wills Wing hang glider. Makes particular reference to preflighting 1/8" and 3/32" cables

<a href="http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Artic ... >Parachute and Harness Care by Rob Kells</a>

A comprehensive overview of hang glider and paraglider reserve parachute care and harness maintenance, based on Rob's outline for his popular seminars on the subject

<a href="http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Artic ... es">Reflex Bridle Adjustment and Maintaining Pitch Stability by Mike Meier</a>

Reflex Bridles (luff lines) are an integral part of the stability systems of kingposted hang gliders. These systems don't generally require tuning or maintenance, but over the long term the effects of age and UV exposure on the sail can render the bridles ineffective unless adjusted. This article describes the problem, which applies to virtually all kingposted gliders (at least those made by Wills wing), and tells how to inspect and adjust the reflex bridles so that they can perform the intended purpose if needed

See also:
<a href="http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Artic ... ass">Pitch Stability & Center of Mass Location by Mike Meier</a>

This article appeared in the December 1997 issue of Hang Gliding magazine as a sidebar to the article above
Forever in the shadow of a true pilot, C.A. Laversa 1950 -
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ACLaversa
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Post by ACLaversa »

Just thought I'd share a quote from one of the linked articles that supported my thought process...there is just simply not been enough testing on flex wing gliders.

"The subtle nuances of how gliders have stiffness to take flight loads and perform well at high speed, yet have flexibility for pleasing handling qualities are only understood by a few successful hang glider designers. Rigorous engineering studies have not been conducted to document or further optimize these factors." (pg.19, Hang Glider Design and Performance by Paul Dees)

If they experienced a higher quality and rate of R&D with the correct tools the flex wing (SS or DS) seems like it could be vastly improved (not that is has not been since the 70s ). I will give credit where credit is due...some companies do take this seriously, and are starting to use more advanced tools and technology...kudos. I just hope to see continued advancement in years to come.

"What is lacking is a rigorous and disciplined, independent flight test comparison amongst the various popular glider models of several manufacturers." (pg.11, Hang Glider Design and Performance by Paul Dees)


When I was reading about the sport and choosing how I wanted to pursue my lust for flight I dug for detailed information on flex-wing airfoils. There was little to be had...descriptions yes...but quantitative info...very little. This may not matter to the average day fly by feel pilot who loves the concept, but doesn't really care how "it works"...I just like to understand it all as information is a passion of mine.
Forever in the shadow of a true pilot, C.A. Laversa 1950 -
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Aaron S
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Post by Aaron S »

Jim Rooney wrote:It's new students don't listen to the experienced pilots telling them the same things we always tell them.
We tell them and they don't listen... over and over.

It's the old case of hearing only what you want to hear.
Let one person whisper the things they want to hear and they're all over it.
Tell them the things they don't want to hear and *crickets*.
This is what everyone thinks when they start hang gliding ("I'm the exceptional one.")
Too right.

The trouble is that we come from "normal" society. In normal-ville, we are the exceptional ones. We take to this stuff faster than average because this is our kinda thing. We excel in this stuff and similar things... for example, though there are many... kitesurfing, motorcycle riding, sailing, skateboarding... etc. Active, quick sports. It's our kinda thing. People that aren't into this kinda stuff don't take up hang gliding.

But the trouble comes when we start here... among our peers. People that think like us, that move like us, that have been drawn to the same kinds of physical sport type things as us. We are among the people that excel at this stuff, but we are used to evaluating progress against people that aren't.

It's like the math wiz kid that's suddenly put into a class of math wiz kids. They're used to being the math wiz, but now they're forced to evaluate things by a whole different scheme... it's a tough transition.

When someone steps into our world, it's hard to show them this.
They will come to learn over time... but unfortunately it takes time.
I've yet to find a way to convey this to people. But I still like to try because if it helps someone not get hurt, then it's worth it.
I suspect that's why Davis is here trying as well.

Welcome home AC
Jim
Hey AC, good to have you joining the ranks of hang glider pilots! Just remember, you're unique... just like everyone else!

Naturally you are going to be a great pilot. You come from good stock. I met your father and uncle many, many, many years ago. Do them proud, be the best pilot you can be. Part of that means that at some point you end up pretty humbled, and aware of your limitations as well as your abilities. We all find a balance there. Be as good as you can be, which also means picking the right gear for your ability and your "needs". Don't let your imagination lead you to funky gear that you won't have fun on. Let go of preconceived ideas of what is beginner, intermediate or advanced equipment, and what genuinely is "limiting" your flying.

Get a Falcon. They rock. There is nothing wrong with them. NOthing limiting about them. I fly all sorts of gliders, and I have two in my personal quiver that I thoroughly enjoy; a T2 and a Falcon. Flew both of hem Saturday. Flew the T2 first to do loops and spins and so on, then flew the Falcon and cranked and banked it as well. Can't say which was more fun, although the most confidence was with the Falcon because it is SO easy to fly.

Here's a bit of a secret about hang gliding and hang gliders; people tend to think that it is the type of glider that defines what sort of pilot they are, but the reality is that it is the type of pilot that defines what sort of glider a glider is. In other words, too many people think they need a Sport 2 over a Falcon, or a U2 over a Sport 2, or a T2 over a U2 in order to be a real pilot, a good pilot, and advancing or advanced pilot. That's a myth. The truth is, a pilot demonstrates his or her aptitude regardless of glider type. A superior pilot on a Falcon is recognizable as a top pilot by the way he flies, and an inferior pilot on a topless glider is clearly recognizable by the way he flies.

It's far better to be on an easier to fly glider and be skilled well beyond its "capabilities" than to be on a harder to fly glider and be even slightly behind the curve. When most often the desire to move up the ladder to more elaborate gliders is motivated by one's own self image and not by the honest limitations imposed by the current glider, the result is that instead of the pilot appearing to observers as an advancing, "cool" pilot, they tend to appear to be goofy and not so cool. What is most impressive is skill and judgment, not equipment. Be really cool and get a Falcon. It's cool to be smart, and cool to be skilled, and cool to have good judgment. And very uncool to to picture oneself different from what we actually are. Get a Falcon, they rock, and you can keep it forever and ever, and always have fun with it. When you are ready to move to a different glider, you can keep the Falcon and fly it for a second flight of the day, or when you want to just have unbridled fun. As long as I am flying, I will always have one myself. And if you think they are somehow not cool or limiting of your future skills, go to Youtube and watch Marshall Falcon. Yee haw.
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Aaron S
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Post by Aaron S »

ACLaversa wrote:Just thought I'd share a quote from one of the linked articles that supported my thought process...there is just simply not been enough testing on flex wing gliders.

"The subtle nuances of how gliders have stiffness to take flight loads and perform well at high speed, yet have flexibility for pleasing handling qualities are only understood by a few successful hang glider designers. Rigorous engineering studies have not been conducted to document or further optimize these factors." (pg.19, Hang Glider Design and Performance by Paul Dees)

If they experienced a higher quality and rate of R&D with the correct tools the flex wing (SS or DS) seems like it could be vastly improved (not that is has not been since the 70s ). I will give credit where credit is due...some companies do take this seriously, and are starting to use more advanced tools and technology...kudos. I just hope to see continued advancement in years to come.

"What is lacking is a rigorous and disciplined, independent flight test comparison amongst the various popular glider models of several manufacturers." (pg.11, Hang Glider Design and Performance by Paul Dees)


When I was reading about the sport and choosing how I wanted to pursue my lust for flight I dug for detailed information on flex-wing airfoils. There was little to be had...descriptions yes...but quantitative info...very little. This may not matter to the average day fly by feel pilot who loves the concept, but doesn't really care how "it works"...I just like to understand it all as information is a passion of mine.
Dude, if you have a real "passion" for flight, then you ought to get away from the keyboard and get a Falcon, go get trained, and start flying. The joys of flight cannot be found within the pages of books, articles or pseudo-scientific theories. What you think is research and development shortage within the industry is misguided fantasy. Until you have mastered the gliding experience, blown your eyelids back while hanging your hide out in the wind under one of these supposedly poorly designed airfoils, you've got no idea whether or not they need improvement. become a pilot, show your stuff, get your jollies in the air, and don't knock what some of us may see as the best possible aircraft available to mankind. It's as if you're walking into an olympic gymnastic event and trying to tell everyone what YOU plan on doing on the pommel horse, and by the way the pommel horses are really not very well thought out. Until you become a hang glider pilot, you really ought to reserve judgment on equipment, and while you are at it, reserve judgment on how good a pilot you might some day hope to become.
Ridgerodent
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Post by Ridgerodent »

Flex wing airfoils change shape at different airspeeds , VG settings , wing loading and other variables. Collecting and analyzing all that data would be a challenge at best .
I actual like that gliders are evolved rather than simply designed from pages of book knowledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIOdzHSe9XI
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