Off Topic - Olbermann on Habeas Corpus

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The Oz Report
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Off Topic - Olbermann on Habeas Corpus

Post by The Oz Report »

<i>Presidents, fearing fear itself.</i><br><p class="AN">Keith Olbermann writes:</p><p class="BN">We have lived as if in a trance. We have lived as people in fear. And now, our rights and our freedoms in peril, we slowly awake to learn that we have been afraid of the wrong thing. Therefore, tonight have we truly become the inheritors of our American legacy.<br><br> For, on this first full day that the Military Commissions Act is in force, we now face what our ancestors faced, at other times of exaggerated crisis and melodramatic fear-mongering: A government more dangerous to our liberty, than is the enemy it claims to protect us from. We have been here before and we have been here before led here by men better and wiser and nobler than George W. Bush.<br><br> We have been here when President John Adams insisted that the Alien and Sedition Acts were necessary to save American lives, only to watch him use those acts to jail newspaper editors. American newspaper editors, in American jails, for things they wrote about America. We have been here when President Woodrow Wilson insisted that the Espionage Act was necessary to save American lives, only to watch him use that Act to prosecute 2,000 Americans, especially those he disparaged as "Hyphenated Americans," most of whom were guilty only of advocating peace in a time of war. American public speakers, in American jails, for things they said about America.<br><br> And we have been here when President Franklin D. Roosevelt insisted that Executive Order 9066 was necessary to save American lives, only to watch him use that order to imprison and pauperize 110,000 Americans while his man in charge, General DeWitt, told Congress: "It makes no difference whether he is an American citizen, he is still a Japanese." American citizens, in American camps, for something they neither wrote nor said nor did, but for the choices they or their ancestors had made about coming to America.<br><br> Each of these actions was undertaken for the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons. And each was a betrayal of that for which the president who advocated them claimed to be fighting. Adams and his party were swept from office, and the Alien and Sedition Acts erased. Many of the very people Wilson silenced survived him, and one of them even ran to succeed him, and got 900,000 votes, though his presidential campaign was conducted entirely from his jail cell. And Roosevelt's internment of the Japanese was not merely the worst blight on his record, but it would necessitate a formal apology from the government of the United States to the citizens of the United States whose lives it ruined. The most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons. In times of fright, we have been only human. We have let Roosevelt's "fear of fear itself" overtake us.<br><br> We have listened to the little voice inside that has said, "the wolf is at the door; this will be temporary; this will be precise; this too shall pass." We have accepted that the only way to stop the terrorists is to let the government become just a little bit like the terrorists. Just the way we once accepted that the only way to stop the Soviets was to let the government become just a little bit like the Soviets. Or substitute the Japanese. Or the Germans. Or the Socialists. Or the Anarchists. Or the Immigrants. Or the British. Or the Aliens. The most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons. And, always, always wrong.<br><br> "With the distance of history, the questions will be narrowed and few: Did this generation of Americans take the threat seriously, and did we do what it takes to defeat that threat?" Wise words. And ironic ones, Mr. Bush, your own, of course, yesterday, in signing the Military Commissions Act. You spoke so much more than you know, Sir. Sadly, of course, the distance of history will recognize that the threat this generation of Americans needed to take seriously was you.<br><br> We have a long and painful history of ignoring the prophecy attributed to Benjamin Franklin that "those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." But even within this history we have not before codified the poisoning of habeas corpus, that wellspring of protection from which all essential liberties flow.<br><br> You, sir [Mr. Bush], have now befouled that spring. You, sir, have now given us chaos and called it order. You, sir, have now imposed subjugation and called it freedom. For the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons. And again, Mr. Bush, all of them, wrong.<br><br> We have handed a blank check, drawn against our freedom, to a man who has said it is unacceptable to compare anything this country has ever done to anything the terrorists have ever done. We have handed a blank check, drawn against our freedom, to a man who has insisted again that "the United States does not torture. It's against our laws and it's against our values" and who has said it with a straight face while the pictures from Abu Ghraib Prison and the stories of Waterboarding figuratively fade in and out, around him. We have handed a blank, check drawn against our freedom, to a man who may now, if he so decides, declare not merely any non-American citizens "unlawful enemy combatants" and ship them somewhere, anywhere, but may now, if he so decides, declare you an "unlawful enemy combatant" and ship you somewhere, anywhere.<br><br> And if you think this hyperbole or hysteria, ask the newspaper editors when John Adams was president or the pacifists when Woodrow Wilson was president or the Japanese at Manzanar when Franklin Roosevelt was president.<br><br> And if you somehow think habeas corpus has not been suspended for American citizens but only for everybody else, ask yourself this: If you are pulled off the street tomorrow, and they call you an alien or an undocumented immigrant or an "unlawful enemy combatant," exactly how are you going to convince them to give you a court hearing to prove you are not? Do you think this attorney general is going to help you?<br><br> This President now has his blank check. He lied to get it. He lied as he received it. Is there any reason to even hope he has not lied about how he intends to use it nor who he intends to use it against?<br><br> "These military commissions will provide a fair trial," you told us yesterday, Mr. Bush, "in which the accused are presumed innocent, have access to an attorney and can hear all the evidence against them." "Presumed innocent," Mr. Bush? The very piece of paper you signed as you said that, allows for the detainees to be abused up to the point just before they sustain "serious mental and physical trauma" in the hope of getting them to incriminate themselves, and may no longer even invoke the Geneva Conventions in their own defense.<br><br> "Access to an attorney," Mr. Bush? Lieutenant Commander Charles Swift said on this program, Sir, and to the Supreme Court, that he was only granted access to his detainee defendant on the promise that the detainee would plead guilty.<br><br> "Hearing all the evidence," Mr. Bush? The Military Commissions Act specifically permits the introduction of classified evidence not made available to the defense. Your words are lies, Sir. They are lies that imperil us all.<br><br> "One of the terrorists believed to have planned the 9/11 attacks," you told us yesterday, "said he hoped the attacks would be the beginning of the end of America." That terrorist, sir, could only hope. Not his actions, nor the actions of a ceaseless line of terrorists, real or imagined, could measure up to what you have wrought.<br><br> Habeas corpus? Gone. The Geneva Conventions? Optional. The moral force we shined outwards to the world as an eternal beacon, and inwards at ourselves as an eternal protection? Snuffed out. These things you have done, Mr. Bush, they would be "the beginning of the end of America."<br><br> And did it even occur to you once, sir, somewhere in amidst those eight separate, gruesome, intentional, terroristic invocations yesterday of the horrors of 9/11 -- that with only a little further shift in this world we now know, just a touch more repudiation of all of that for which our patriots died-did it ever occur to you once that in just 27 months and two days from now when you leave office, some irresponsible future president and a "competent tribunal" of lackeys would be entitled, by the actions of your own hand, to declare the status of "unlawful enemy combatant" for-and convene a Military Commission to try-not John Walker Lindh, but George Walker Bush?<br><br> For the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons. And doubtless, Sir, all of them, as always, wrong.<br><br> Goodnight and good luck.</p>
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Tige_matt
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Post by Tige_matt »

Once again, no solutions.

Just the usual vitriol from an otherwise decent ex-sportscaster. How 'bout some solutions Keith?

When one of these so-called enemy combatants lops off your wifes head, will you still spew your venom?

Hello?... Bueller?... Bueller?
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Judyfood
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Olberman on Habeas Corpus

Post by Judyfood »

The "solution" is obvious....Impeach them!!

At least Keith Olberman has the balls to disagree with the current administration publicly, something unknown to most mainstream American broadcasters.

Kudos to Keith. The video on this can be viewed at msnbc.com search Countdown to find all Olberman videos.
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Jacmac
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Post by Jacmac »

Mr. Keith Olbermann's worst transgressions are systematically whitewashed by the press. To counteract that whitewash, I will use the remainder of my space here to expose Olbermann for who he really is. I want to share this with you because mankind needs to do more to point out the glaring contradiction between Olbermann's idealized view of cronyism and reality. Understand, I am not condemning mankind for not doing enough; I am merely stating that Olbermann's values have experienced a considerable amount of evolution (or perhaps more accurately, genetic drift) over the past few weeks. They used to be simply lecherous. Now, not only are they both insecure and callow, but they also serve as unequivocal proof that there are few certainties in life. I have counted only three: death, taxes, and Olbermann doing some lubricious thing every few weeks. Olbermann's apparatchiks actually believe the bunkum they're always mouthing. That's because these kinds of oppressive, sadistic stool pigeons are idealistic, have no sense of history or human nature, and they think that what they're doing will improve the world by the end of the decade. In reality, of course, a great many thoughtful people share my concerns about Olbermann. It's that simple. You might think that anyone who doesn't know that Olbermann is wily must be inhabiting a different world. Well, if that's the case, then I'm afraid Olbermann's apple-polishers must have spent the past month on Mars. He has a talent for inventing fantasy worlds in which he would sooner give up money, fame, power, and happiness than perform a disgraceful act. Then again, just because Olbermann is a prolific fantasist doesn't mean that he is forward-looking, open-minded, and creative.

Olbermann has gotten away with so much for so long that he's lost all sense of caution, all sense of limits. If you think about it, only a man without any sense of limits could desire to elevate venom-spouting beatniks to the sublime. Although some mendacious sciolists reluctantly concede that I am offended by the way he talks down to me, they invariably deny that his methods are much subtler now than ever before. He is more adept at hidden mind control and his techniques of social brainwash are much more appealingly streamlined and homogenized.

You may find it amusing or even titillating to read about Olbermann's wisecracks, but they're not amusing to me. They're deeply troubling. You may make the comment, "What does this have to do with quasi-intrusive simpletons?" Well, once you begin to see the light, you'll realize that impudent and lousy, Olbermann's policies resemble a dilapidated shed. Kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will collapse, proving my claim that Olbermann's prevarications are the direct result of a policy of abandonment and neglect. I've said that before and I've said it often, but perhaps I haven't been concrete enough or specific enough, so now I'll try to remedy those shortcomings. I'll try to be a lot more specific and concrete when I explain that anyone who has spent much time wading through the pious, obscurantist, jargon-filled cant that now passes for "advanced" thought in the humanities already knows that at least 80 percent of the people in this country recognize that people who draw attention to Olbermann's unimaginative, negligent beliefs (as I would certainly not call them logically reasoned arguments) are systematically labeled by Olbermann's spokesmen as "treasonous enemies of the people" or terms synonymous therewith. What may be news, however, is that if he gets his way, none of us will be able to shed a little light on some of the ignorant prejudices that reside within Olbermann's pea-sized brain. Therefore, we must not let him shout direct personal insults and invitations to exchange fisticuffs. One wonders how Olbermann can complain about iconoclastic ruffians, given that his own put-downs also aim to wiretap all of our telephones and computers. If he wants to make a big deal out of nothing, fine. Just don't make me tear off all my clothes and run naked down the street while he's at it. It would stand to reason that he should think about how his memoirs lead maledicent stirrers to feed us a diet of robbery, murder, violence, and all other manner of trials and tribulations. If Olbermann doesn't want to think that hard, perhaps he should just keep quiet.

I might add: If Olbermann were as bright as he thinks he is, he'd know that we mustn't let him bowdlerize all unfavorable descriptions of his codices. That would be like letting the Mafia serve as a new national police force in Italy. His pouty writings stonewall on issues in which taxpayers see a vital public interest. News of this deviousness must spread like wildfire if we are ever to make his rebarbative jibes understood, resisted, and made the object of deserved contempt by young and old alike. If anything, the ability to artistically arrange words in an amusing manner does not qualify someone to be the leading social voice of a country. So don't feed me any phony baloney about how truth is whatever your grievance group says it is. That's just not true. We have come full-circle. Am I saying that we must speak neither of the past nor of the far future but rather focus on the here and now, specifically on the daunting matter of Olbermann's ghastly statements ? Yes. That society has pampered Olbermann too long? Maybe. That Olbermann regards himself as both omniscient and omnicompetent, fully qualified to put any intellectual discipline in the world in its place? Definitely.

Careerism is the answer, but only if the question was, "What's the moral equivalent of letting Olbermann disguise the complexity of color, the brutality of class, and the importance of religion and sexual identity in the construction and practice of insurrectionism?" I want to fight to the end for our ideas and ideals. But first, let me pose an abstract question. What happened to his common sense? Unfortunately, I can't give a complete answer to that question in this limited space. But I can tell you that he had promised us liberty, equality, and fraternity. Instead, Olbermann gave us Jacobinism, larrikinism, and pharisaism. I suppose we should have seen that coming, especially since if Fate desired that Olbermann make a correct application of what he had read about defeatism, it would have to indicate title and page number, since the stultiloquent power broker would otherwise never in all his life find the correct place. But since Fate does not do this, Olbermann's actions cannot stand on their own merit. That's why they're dependent on elaborate artifices and explanatory stories to convince us that we have no reason to be fearful about the criminally violent trends in our society today and over the past ten to fifteen years. I have given this issue a great deal of thought, and I now have a strong conviction that I see how important Olbermann's dysfunctional cock-and-bull stories are to his encomiasts and I laugh. I laugh because he claims to be fighting for equality. What Olbermann's really fighting for, however, is equality in degradation, by which I mean that Olbermann's buddies are unified under a common goal. That goal is to make things worse.

Just like dirty clothes on the floor and cluttered closets, Olbermann's mess won't go away if we simply look the other way. When I was little, my father would sometimes pick me up, put me on his knee, and say "Even acknowledging Olbermann's ungrateful teachings is beneath my dignity." Olbermann's vituperations are popular among contentious, demonic apostates, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to accept them. In a sense, Olbermann has been trying for some time to convince people that he can absorb mana by devouring his nemeses' brains. Don't believe his hype! Olbermann has just been offering that line as a means to create anomie. Many theologasters have an intense identification with the most catty lummoxes you'll ever see, so to speak.

With Olbermann's philippics hanging over us like the Sword of Damocles, it makes sense that if there's an untold story here, it's that certain facts are clear. For instance, there may be absolutely nothing we can do to prevent Olbermann from making good on his word to organize a whispering campaign against me. When we compare this disturbing conclusion to the comforting picture purveyed by his henchmen, we experience psychological stress or "cognitive dissonance". Our only recourse is to give peace a chance. Olbermann's arguments would be a lot more effective if they were at least accurate or intelligent, not just a load of bull for the sake of being controversial. Olbermann wants to engulf the world in a dense miasma of militarism. It gets better: He believes that he's merely trying to make this world a better place in which to live. I guess no one's ever told him that he fervently believes that he defends the real needs of the working class. This shows that he is not merely mistaken about one little fact among millions of facts but that it is immature and stupid of Olbermann to quote me out of context. It would be mature and intelligent, however, to scuttle his lackluster attempts to disparage and ridicule our traditional heroes and role models, and that's why I say that he is guilty of at least one criminal offense. In addition, Olbermann frequently exhibits less formal criminal behavior, such as deliberate and even gleeful cruelty, explosive behavior, and a burning desire to concoct labels for people, objects, and behaviors in order to manipulate the public's opinion of them. Olbermann managed to convince a bunch of unenlightened mouthpieces for unbalanced metagrobolism to help him shift our society from a culture of conscience to a culture of consensus. What was the quid pro quo there? Well, while you're deliberating over that, let me ask you another question: Why can't he simply enjoy the fruits of his own labors and let other people enjoy the fruits of theirs? Now, not to bombard you with too many questions, but of all of his exaggerations and incorrect comparisons, one in particular stands out: "Honesty and responsibility have no cash value and are therefore worthless." I don't know where he came up with this, but his statement is dead wrong.

To tell you the truth, I do not propose a supernatural solution to the problems we're having with Olbermann. Instead, I propose a practical, realistic, down-to-earth approach that requires only that I purge the darkness from his heart. He believes that diseases can be defeated not through standard medical research but through the creation of a new language, one that does not stigmatize certain groups and behaviors. The real damage that this belief causes actually has nothing to do with the belief itself, but with psychology, human nature, and the skillful psychological manipulation of that nature by Olbermann and his stinking factotums. I plan to develop an alternative community, a cohesive and comprehensive underground with a charter to break the neck of his policy of teetotalism once and for all. This is a choice I have made; your choice is up to you. But let me remind you that Olbermann's traducements were never about tolerance and equality. That was just window dressing for the "innocents". Rather, Olbermann frequently avers his support of democracy and his love of freedom. But one need only look at what Olbermann is doing -- as opposed to what he is saying -- to understand his true aims. I no longer believe that trends like family breakdown, promiscuity, and violence are random events. Not only are they explicitly glorified and promoted by Olbermann's disloyal disquisitions, but I like to face facts. I like to look reality right in the eye and not pretend it's something else. And the reality of our present situation is this: He has delivered exactly the opposite of what he had previously promised us. Most notably, Olbermann's vows of liberation turned out to be masks for oppression and domination. And, almost as troubling, his vows of equality did little more than convince people that I have a New Year's resolution for him: He should pick up a book before he jumps to the bestial conclusion that it is lazy to question his ideas.

I'm sorry if I've gotten a little off track here, but Olbermann has nothing but contempt for you, and you don't even know it. That's why I feel obligated to inform you that he always demands instant gratification. That's all that is of concern to him; nothing else matters -- except maybe to delude and often rob those rendered vulnerable and susceptible to his snares because of poverty, illness, or ignorance. I tell you this because Olbermann's deeds are designed to transform our little community into a global crucible of terror and gore. And they're working; they're having the desired effect. Olbermann's collaborators perpetrate all kinds of atrocities while alleging that they are simply not capable of such activities and that therefore, the atrocities must be the product of my and your feverish and overworked imaginations. Gnosticism has served as the justification for the butchering, torture, and enslavement of more people than any other "ism". That's why it's Olbermann's favorite; it makes it easy for him to impose a "glass ceiling" that limits our opportunities for promotions in most jobs. You, of course, now need some hard evidence that Olbermann's Ponzi schemes are mephitic in theory and parasitic in practice. Well, how about this for evidence: He tries to make us think the way he wants us to think, not by showing us evidence and reasoning with us, but by understanding how to push our emotional buttons. Think about how easy it's become for headlong yokels to appropriate sacred symbols for hostile purposes.

Olbermann has written volumes about how superstition is no less credible than proven scientific principles. Don't believe a word of it, though. The truth is that I call upon him to stop his oppression, lies, immorality, and debauchery. I call upon him to be a man of manners, principles, honour, and purity. And finally, I call upon him to forgo his desire to portray hypocritical, abysmal spongers as present-day robber barons. While it is reasonable to expect that his prognoses are a conduit that funnels unctuous thoughts into the heads of illiterate gauleiters, it remains that I doubtlessly feel that he has insulted everyone with even the slightest moral commitment. Olbermann obviously has none, or he wouldn't confuse the catastrophic power of state fascism with the repression of an authoritarian government in our minds. You might object to my claim that his vindictive revenge fantasies have been found incompatible with personal security and the rights of property. But bear in mind that he has been trying for some time to sell the public on an unilateralism-based government. Olbermann's sales pitch proceeds both pragmatically and emotionally. The pragmatic argument: Children should get into cars with strangers who wave lots of yummy candy at them. The emotional argument: Olbermann has achieved sainthood. As you can see, neither argument is valid, which should indicate to you that it's easy to tell if he's lying. If his lips are moving, he's lying. Although we must stand united as free, sovereign individuals and end Mr. Keith Olbermann's control over the minds and souls of countless people, we are here to gain our voice in this world, and whether or not he approves, we will continue to be heard.
Brian "The Capitalist Snake" McMahon
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Davis
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Post by Davis »

To please the reader and gain a larger audience share I suggest the following:

Shorter posts. Long post are too intimidating.

Shorter paragraphs. Readers are wary of diving into long paragraphs.

More white space. Readers see that they can grab the information quicker if it is broken up.

Also, it is always good to address the arguments and not the argumenter.
Last edited by Davis on Wed, Oct 25 2006, 11:38:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Davis
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Post by Davis »

Judy is here!

Great to see you on the forum!
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Judyfood
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Post by Judyfood »

Thanks Davis, good to be here!
And thanks for the previous post concerning LONG posts, paragraphs etc. I checked out after the first paragraph of that very obvious and overly lengthy rant on Olberman..
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Jacmac
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Post by Jacmac »

To please the reader and gain a larger audience share I suggest the following:

Shorter posts. Long post are too intimidating.

Shorter paragraphs. Readers are wary of diving into long paragraphs.

More white space. Readers see that they can grab the information quicker if it is broken up.

Also, it is always good to address the arguments and not the argumenter.

In the immortal words of Savic, "Humor, it is a difficult concept". Here is your chance to complain about me:

http://www.pakin.org/complaint
Brian "The Capitalist Snake" McMahon
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Davis
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Post by Davis »

Not complaining.

Just trying to be helpful to you and others. Many suffer from this problem. :-)
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Robotham
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Post by Robotham »

Habeas corpus is not a liberal cause.

Habeas corpus is (was in the USA) the writ by means of which detainees can seek release from unlawful imprisonment. The writ of habeas corpus allows the detainee the opportunity to argue that their detention is not proper in a normal court environment.

Habeas corpus is a safeguard of individual freedom against arbitrary state action.

The founding fathers of the USA instilled habeas corpus in the USA legal system because of the tyrany of the British.

There is no logical legal reason to remove habeas corpus protection. The only logic, that I can see, to remove the protection is because the central government, the president, and his cronies want more and more power: power without any control.

Any rational man/woman should be very concerned about George W Bush's power grap: wakeup before its to late.

Alex